In every episode of “Maintenance PhaseA two-year-old podcast tackling shoddy nutritional research and anti-fat bias, hosts Aubrey Gordon and Michael Hobbes try to outdo each other: Who can think of the most embarrassing starter?
“Welcome to Maintenance Phase, the podcast that would never film you from across the street showing only your body and not your head”, Hobbes begins an episode on the dubious origins of the the so-called “epidemic” of obesity in the 1990s.
“Actually, there is research on that specific topic,” Gordon replies. “And we’re totally going to [bleep]I’m talking about it.”
“The only places in American life where you see a lot of headless torsos are the local obesity news segments and Grindr,” says Hobbes. “As a gay man researching this topic, I am very familiar with this format.” They laugh.
The runaway success of “Maintenance Phase” owes much to Hobbes and Gordon’s relationship, which frames incisive criticism of fad diets and nutritional statistics in laugh-out-loud, profane jokes.
Both began their careers in the nonprofit sector. Gordon was a community organizer focused on LGBTQ+ rights, while Hobbes worked in international development. That sense of mission led them to report.
Gordon blogged anonymously as “Your Fat Friend” for five years before publishing his first book, What we don’t talk about when we talk about fatwas published in November 2020. Hobbes did investigative reporting for publications such as HuffPost and the new republic for a decade and co-hosted another podcast, “You’re Wrong,” with Sarah Marshall from 2018 to 2021.
The two first connected in 2018. HuffPost exposé Hobbes wrote about myths surrounding the obesity epidemic. (Side note: Both prefer to use the word “fat,” which is a simple descriptor, over “obese,” whose scientific veneer, Gordon says, hides a lot of disapproval.) Gordon read his published article and was struck by his alternately scathing and sympathetic account of how the medical establishment reinforces perceptions that fatness is a moral and personal failing.
Just before the pandemic hit, the two first met over dinner and talked well into the night. They laughed among themselves. They agreed with each other. What would it be like, they decided, if they recorded their conversations?
If the podcast feels like two friends cracking jokes and sending each other outrageous text messages for the other to read aloud, it’s because that’s how Hobbes and Gordon work. They take turns choosing a particular topic for an episode — the rise and fall of low-fat cookies at Snackwells, say, or the psychological abuse kids endure at fat camps — and then spend a few weeks conducting a solo research. Then Hobbes, who lives in Berlin, and Gordon, in Oregon, record an hour-long talk. The researcher leads the conversation, while the other person reacts, adding their own informed comments to the discussion.
Despite the spontaneity, “Maintenance Phase” has become a master class in how to critically examine research studies and diet claims. Gordon and Hobbes point out the flaws in population-based nutritional studies and explore the dubious history of concepts like calories and body mass index. trace the origins of commonly cited statistics on the obesity epidemic. For example, Hobbes recently learned that the idea that obesity and diabetes rates will cause life expectancy rates to decline for today’s children was invented. In 2002, a well-known pediatrician dismissed that statement during a newspaper interview, even though he had done no research to back it up, and it was soon cited as fact by the US Surgeon General.
The problem with claims about the health impacts of being overweight, the two often argue, is not that being overweight is associated with higher risks for certain health conditions and higher mortality rates. They don’t question that. Too often, however, doctors and researchers, not to mention thinner people, assume that obesity is the root cause of health problems and not a symptom. “We’ve been told this extremely simple story about obesity for so long that it’s really hard to see it any other way.” Hobbes says in an episode. The researchers downplay systemic racial bias, poverty, lack of health insurance, all factors that have been shown to have a huge impact on health, because they haven’t investigated their own assumption that fat people should be thin.
Not only does “Maintenance Phase” appear in the top rankings of health podcasts, but they are now supported by over 38,000 people via Patreon, allowing Hobbes and Gordon to focus full-time on their writing projects. and podcasts. Gordon says that he has received a flood of emails from fat people who are relieved to hear a discussion of nutrition and fatness that operates from a foundation of basic humanity.
“I’m a big believer in public health, and I try very hard not to promote science denial or other forms of conspiracy on the show,” says Hobbes. “But most of what we know about diet and health comes from studying populations. Individuals are much more complex. You can’t tell how healthy someone is by looking at them, and you certainly can’t make them healthier.” telling them it should look different.
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